How can I add value – with angela lockwood

In this episode, Jo is joined by Angela Lockwood, an Occupational Therapist, speaker, author and podcast host for a raw and honest conversation about how to thrive as a health professional. Jo and Angela discuss:

  • how to know when you need to change, shift or pivot your practice?
  • the question Angela asks herself in every situation, 
  • the power of our words,
  • the importance of supervision and the risk facing the profession as a result of the lack of development of talent,
  • why clinicians and professionals need to prioritise their health and manage their energy,
  • why you should own your greatness AND acknowledge the things you aren’t great at and
  • the importance of personal development. 

You can find Angela Lockwood at her website www.angelalockwood.com.au

 Resources mentioned in this episode:

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TRANSCRIPT:

Jo: Well, welcome to the Entrepreneurial Clinician. I have a guest with me today, and I must admit I’m doing my fangirling thing, right? So I’m like, oh my God, it’s Angela. It’s Angela. And what’s really awesome is that Angela and I have turned up today with very similar glasses on and almost exactly the same colour top on. Which means nothing to you listening to this, but it means everything to us because we don’t speak to each other very often, apart from the occasional love heart on an Instagram post. So this is very cool for us.

Angela: So, Angela, tell us how do you wanna introduce yourself, tell the world who you are and what you do?

Angela: Oh my goodness, Jo, well first of all, I am extremely honoured to be on here because it’s, I know it’s a new podcast, but it’s an amazing podcast. And I love that you just said fan girl moment because I’m loving watching what you are doing and the space that you are in. So it’s, yeah, it’s definitely a mutual fan club. And when I saw you doing the podcast, I was like, I wanna be on there, but it was such a selfish thing cause I wanted to talk to you <laugh> . But yeah, look, it’s an interesting question. What are you, what do you do? And I always really struggle. I have my elevator pitch, I have my work pitch, I have everything that I’ve developed over, you know, 20 years of being in business. And I always find it really difficult to say what I am, what I do, because I feel like there’s so much and I want to be able to condense it down into one. And I’m sure anyone listening to this knows what I’m talking about.

Angela: But look, what I do right now in this chapter of my life is I work with educators, with parents, and with educators helping kids really maximize their learning experience. So a lot of the kids that I work with and schools that I work with obviously are with children with disabilities or with additional needs. So my background is, I’m an occupational therapist by trade, by qualification. But I’ve actually worked in schools for 20 years, and different environments and, in corporate land. And a lot of the work that I do is really around helping people navigate complexity in a way that makes them, I guess, feel really confident and feel trusting in themselves that they can do what they, whatever they can do. This sounds really waffly, I’m just listening to myself, because whenever I reflect on what I do, I think of people, do you ever do that, Jo?

Jo: Yeah.

Angela: Like you sort of, I think of people and I go, what did I do with them? What did I do for them that added value for them? And it’s always so different. But I know people need to hold onto, well, what is, I’m an occupational therapist, worked with children and educators for 20 years, um, and really help parents really navigate, um, you know, what can be a really awful time and a really stressful time and a really overwhelming time when their kids start school and go through school. So that’s sort of my current chapter of my life. But you know, me through author, you know me through, I do writing books,

Jo: <laugh>. Yes. So, and I actually have another visual cue here for me. So I have a copy of it here. It’s called Switch Off. And this book, it’s the first book that I actually gave myself permission to write in. Cause you know, I grew up with parents that say you don’t damage books because they’re apparently some sort of holy relic, but yours has got sticky notes. And it was just such a profound way of looking at the world. And I remember reading it and going, this is why I love occupational therapists, cause they take the complicated and they distill it down to the simple, but not the dumb. So they distill something, they make something complicated, digestible, they make something complicated, easy to understand for me right now. And that’s what your book did for me. And I still recommend it. So most of my clients are instructed to go and get this book before we even start working together.

Angela: Oh, thanks so much.

Jo: Oh my pleasure. I love how you answered my question because one of the things that I love about being an entrepreneurial clinician and one of the things that you demonstrate so eloquently through your life is it’s about this chapter of my life. So you’ve never struck me as somebody who has rigidly sticking to, I’m going to be an author and an author is all I do. I’m an occupational therapist, turned author. And there was a time a couple of years ago when you were helping organisations navigate this new NDIS space that we have here in Australia. And before that, I think you were working with adults or you were doing a lot of speaking. So my question to you is, how do you know when to change or shift or pivot? What comes up for you that helps you make those decisions?

Angela: Yeah, it’s a really great question, Jo. And I love that I have always seen things as chapters in my life. And to me it all makes total sense. And here in lies, the difficulty with being an entrepreneur is that it can make sense to you, but it doesn’t always make sense to people who you are wanting to buy your services or to understand what you do. And that’s the complexity of what we do is it all makes sense to me. It’s all very clear. It all has a very clear thread, but like you just said, but you’re writing books about switch off and you’re in corporate space and helping leaders really help them switch off and to navigate their stress journey. And then I’m in schools working with kids. To me, really the underlying thing on all of this is really helping people find calm in their lives. So to me, I go right from the beginning when I became an OT, it was always about working with people, you just mentioned it, where they’re at in that point in time. And a question that’s always really held me, I guess a common thread and held me grounded throughout my whole career is what does this person need right now from me?

Jo: Yes. Yes. Wow.

Angela: And when I’m really clear on that, it helps me make decisions to go, well, actually, I’m not the best person for you right now. I know someone that is, so let me introduce you to them. Or there’s times where I could be sitting, particularly in my space where I do work in the corporate space, where I’ve got somebody who’s really struggling with their current role and they’re not feeling fulfilled. My question to them is exactly my question to a child who’s having a meltdown because someone picked on them in the playground and they don’t know how to deal with. That is, what do you need right now? And it’s a really powerful question and that’s a question, even through writing Switch Off that I was like, well, what does the world need right now?

Angela: And I’m not thinking that the world read my book, that I was gonna solve the world’s problems. But I guess that’s what I do know how my next chapter is. I do ask myself that question, what does the world need right now? What can I give to the world right now that I know is unique and is my skillset that I can add value to the world? Because let’s face it, I do have this thing that I could be dead tomorrow. I do have one of those thoughts that life is short, so I may as well do something worthwhile and productive and make an impact somehow. And to me that impact could be one-on-one with somebody. It could be through writing a book. It could be through doing a keynote to a room of people I’ll never meet again. So yeah, I guess my response to that, Jo, is what are my skills right now where I could be there for somebody in their time of need? And that’s, that’s how I respond to what my next chapter is really.

Jo: Wonderful. And the reason why I ask this question, because it’s so obvious to me that your entrepreneurial thinking stems from how can I add value? Not where am I needed? How do I make money? How do I keep my ethics in play? How do I weaponise the word ‘professionalism’? How do I make sure that everybody knows what an OT does? And it’s very much about where can I add value? Where can I add value? So for me, that theme of your work life, in your career as I’ve watched you, has become very, very evident to me.

Angela: Great. I’m glad it’s evident to you Jo <laugh>

Jo: <laugh>. Well, and I think as professionals who’ve been doing this for a while now, we’re going to have generations of people coming through underneath us and behind us who, this is how they navigate that career. It’s not gonna be, I spent 20 years in a hospital learning how to be a physical therapist. I, I actually dunno anybody who’s done that now, most of those people have retired. And our clients and the people we serve, they don’t necessarily want somebody that is that very rigid in a box. This is all I know how to do and how I need to do it. What are some of the key things about the different, you know, people, groups or populations that you’ve had the chance to work with, but what are some of the similarities that have come up for you?

Angela: Uh, yeah, another great question. You know, it’s interesting. I always feel like I’m saying exactly the same thing, but just with a different palette, uh, di in a different, in a different language. And I think that’s probably one of my skill, really true skill sets, is that the ability to be able to talk to, you know, a professional and then be able to talk to a parent, then be able to talk to a child and then go and talk to a CEO about the same thing, but just with a different language palette. Um, and I think when, and particularly for new, I do a lot of, um, you know, I, I work with a lot of students that are coming through universities and, and support them. And through that I always, I always say to them that you’ve gotta be really clear.

And I guess I keep hearing myself. It comes back to knowing your value. What is it that you can be right now for all of these people? And rather than that feeling overwhelming, I feel that’s really empowering that if I can talk to a child about helping them be emotionally regulated in that moment and then communicating to the parent around why the child’s having difficulty and then speaking to a teacher in the same tone about exactly the same situation, saying to them, well, this is why this has happened, in a language that they understand. I believe that that’s when you really truly know your stuff. It’s not rattling off the top 10 things that you can do to do this or every research and referencing everything. Like, that’s great, but now Chat GPT can do that for us.

Jo: <laugh>, I’m sorry, wasn’t expecting us to go there. So quickly put Jo back In the box.

Angela: Sorry Jo!

Jo: Go back in the box, Jo.

Angela: But you know, it’s, it’s really interesting space to be able to turn the language of what we know and what we do into that moment where somebody can understand what we’re talking about, that’s where the real skill lies. And that’s something that I, I really hope that we are teaching new clinicians that are coming through in whatever discipline is right. It’s fine to know stuff, but how have to know how to apply that.

Jo: Oh, hallelujah. I wanna clap and cheer and give you pompoms and do a dance and all of those things. Ok. Maybe the rest of the world doesn’t need to know about that. Anyhoo, so I wanna come into this space now talking about supervision and how we develop ourselves throughout our career. It’s a theme that’s coming up for me a lot at the moment and I am quite concerned about inexperienced or new graduates coming through who have heard the stories of other health professionals who are talking constantly about burnout and how poorly they’ve been treated in the workplace and encouraging all these new graduates to set boundaries and what the boundaries should look like. But there’s gotta be some application of wisdom to that. So to give you an example, I’ve heard a couple of stories where newly licensed or newly credentialed clinicians are what I would call <laugh> ignoring client need in the moment to preserve a boundary. And I would love to know from you, Angela, how you help your students start to navigate these, what we’ve traditionally called soft skills, but they’re not soft skills. Those skills that aren’t taught in a classroom or on an online lecture or in a textbook. How do you do that? Where do you see that turning up for you?

Angela: Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I can remember when I was, I was about 24, 25, I’d met an OT who had just come back from Canada and did a whole heap of really cool things over there. And I came back and I was like, I wanna go into private practice with kids. Like, I knew it was just where my heart was. I knew it’s what I wanted. And I remember her saying to me, it was a quite a negative experience for me. And she said to me, you’ll never make money out of kids. And I can remember that comment just like hitting me. And I’m like, oh my gosh. Um, okay. That was really an awful comment. And of course as clinicians, we have to be in that space of being able to make enough money to invest in our knowledge and invest in our skills and invest in our time and have a good life and all that.

You know, all of this. But what I noticed more than what she said was the impact of our words and the impact of what we share with young clinicians that are coming out of uni or even students, that they’re at a space where they’re looking towards us to find out how do we do this? And if they’re looking going, oh my gosh, these people are all tired and cranky and wanting to get out, they don’t like the profession. They’re telling me they don’t have enough time to even have me as a student. They’re up there doing whatever they’re doing and then they’re charging me out at, you know, $10 an hour. We know that’s not the case. They’re looking and going, well, how do we do this?

How do we navigate this professional life? So what I do is to answer really the question around how do I do it? One of the things is always through honesty and showing them the reality of it. So not trying to scare them, not trying to go, but just to say, look, if you, cause I’ve always been a private practitioner, so for me I go, look, this has been my journey. This is how I’ve experienced, these are the opportunities that you’ve got, but these are also the things to be really mindful of. And one of the things that I’m finding Jo, which is quite alarming, is the amount of young practitioners that are coming out, starting private practice without clinical supervision. Yes. Or without any supervision.

Jo:Yes, yes, yes. Hallelujah. The yeses <laugh>. Yes. It worries me too.

Angela: <laugh>. And I’m having this really open conversation with you that I’m trying to, I guess for my next chapter, I’m looking going, is there a space in for me in the next chapter for me around really supporting young people to, to bring their qualities, bring their skills, bring their talents, bring their values to this space, but being mindful that it’s a long road ahead and it’s an ever-evolving road ahead and one of the things I had to do was in writing Switch Off in particular, it was such a learning experience for me too, cause I was a fast head. I was somebody who wanted to do everything, be everything. Like I was teaching aerobics after being in practice all day. And I was doing so many different things that, yeah, it did lead to burnout. But I wasn’t tapping into people who I could look at and go, that’s how I want to do it. And so I want to have younger people looking going, that’s how we can do it. And it’s all good, it’s all fine. We will be fine, but we can’t do it on our own.

Jo: I’m trying to grab, I’m gonna grab that thread and that thread and that thread <laugh>.

Angela: With me there’s so many threads.

Jo: I know. And that’s why I love these conversations cause, so we can’t do it on our own. I’m gonna start there and it doesn’t matter which, and this is my experience, it hasn’t mattered for me whether I’m just newly graduated or right now and coming up into 30 years since graduation. I know I can’t do this work alone. And the more mature I have become, the more wisdom I have developed, the more experience I’ve got, the more training that I do, the more people that I get to work with opens up for me that, number one, I don’t know at all. And number two, I need people in my world to help me get perspective, to help me think through what I’ve just experienced, to keep me healthy so that I can keep my clients healthy. And I think there’s so much pressure on us as new graduates to go and get a job because we need to live and we need an income.

And here in Australia there’s such a war for talent. Like we just don’t have enough people to do the work cause we’re still waiting for the borders to feel safe enough after the Covid pandemic two to three years ago. So employers are throwing what I consider to be quite huge salaries at these new graduates who develop the lifestyle in accordance with that. But businesses can’t sustain it. So we need our new graduates from graduation day one to be fully functioning, fully formed five years plus the experienced clinicians who can go make the money I need them to make, to support their salary. And this is where I see so much danger in our health system here in Australia. And it’s what I’m seeing from all my clients in the US no doubt it’s happening in Great Britain, is we’re gonna implode cause the businesses can’t support it. We haven’t got enough talent and there’s nobody thinking about pulling the threads of that discussion together. Do you see similar things?

Angela: Absolutely. And I’ve worked with clinicians in mentoring roles and business owners for 20 years and it actually hasn’t ever changed, that’s what concerns me.

Jo: That’s sad. 20 years. 20 years!

Angela: That the conversation back then is still the conversation that’s been had now. But it’s interesting with the highest salaries and everything is that there’s also an element of responsibility for business owners. So we’ve had a whole new change, a whole model change in Australia around healthcare, how healthcare’s delivered, what the model looks like. And I can remember way back before even the NDIS had rolled out, I was working with a lot of business owners, health business owners to try to get them business savvy in knowing that the NDIS was coming in to go, Hey guys, this is gonna rock your world mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it has, it’s rocked everybody’s world in the health space and we’ve got small providers now being sort of taken over or swallowed whole by these big national companies. But unfortunately what we’re seeing is that humanness, I don’t even know if that’s a word. <Laugh>.

Jo: Well use it as a word. It’s today, it’s for the purposes of this podcast.

Angela: Yes. A model I’ve developed around the Care model of practice is actually around when we’re working with people, doesn’t matter what your profession is. So as a health professional, you actually have to care, first and foremost, the business stuff makes sense. Right? That’s very logical, we get that. But if you don’t, and as even as these business owners who are employing these young new graduates that you have to actually care about their career. They can’t be a number, they can’t be somebody who you go, right, well pay ’em this amount that’ll keep them, we’ve got a staff shortage in the area. It can’t be just a very logical process because we’re in a heart driven profession. And if we take out that care and that desire to support those people, and I’m not just saying there are not even young people. Like we’ve got people studying health professionals as mature age students that we have to really invest in their emotional wellbeing and their career wellbeing. Otherwise we’re just gonna keep forking out money or forking out time or just investing in things that don’t matter. And what really matters is that we’ve got really the people who really care about, people who need us. And so people with disabilities, we’ve got health professionals, they need to care about them. And if they don’t care about their own role and they don’t care about the position that they’re in, that flow on effect just doesn’t happen. And I know that sounds very touchy feely, like, yeah, Angela, that’s lovely. We all just have to care and let’s have a big hug and sing. I actually believe that if we led with that, so many problems would just disappear.

Jo:Absolutely. I think that’s such an important part of the conversation and one that’s not gonna go away. I’m, I’m still a bit stunned at the fact you were having these conversations with health business owners 20 years ago. That’s made me sad.

Angela: Sorry, I don’t wanna make you sad.

Jo: No, well it’s time for change. It’s really time for change. And if we don’t talk about it, because one of the things that I’m noticing is how many health business owners feel so isolated. But they are watching the Instagram lifestyle of people like myself thinking that my world is awesome. And I’m like, well, hang on a minute, <laugh>, come over to Facebook where you see the other bits that aren’t so awesome or get onto LinkedIn cause you won’t find me there at all cause I’m terrified. But helping other clinicians understand that if you are going through something, if you are struggling to keep retention, if you are even struggling to find talent, if you feel like it’s all your fault and your attachment issues around I am not good enough, I am not worthy, nobody likes me, everybody hates me. That’s when you actually need to go and get the help and do the work. Now it doesn’t always need to be really intense psychotherapy, but it does require good mentoring.

Angela: Absolutely. It does. And Jo my whole career, I have always worked alongside, there’s been like two streams of my life really. One is around professional development, one’s around personal development. And neither are more important than the other because they both are interconnected. And so if I look around my office right now, like I’m surrounded by books and that for me it’s always been a real desire to learn more about who I am and what can I give and what’s available for me. And I mean like money alongside spiritual connectedness or as you know, I’m an OT by heart, so that stuff just makes sense to me. But I think for practitioners just to, and I know, gosh, I used to run a magazine, it was another chapter of my life, <laugh> and it was called The Place for Health.

And I remember I covered a story in the very first edition, which was around vicarious trauma. And like I can’t even tell you how long ago this was now. And it was interesting cause a lot of things were popping up with clinicians where they were faced with so much trauma constantly. And I mean, little trauma, big trauma, it doesn’t matter. But what I found was how many health professionals aren’t actually looking after their own wellbeing. And it goes beyond going and doing yoga and think that’s all important, but I’m gonna come right back to where we started Jo, if you don’t mind that once you’re really clear around what your value offering is to the world, everything else just makes sense. So for me, my value, I need to have the energy to offer my value. And so for me that means energy conservations really important. And so when, and I hopefully I don’t lose people here, but when you scale everything back and you get back to the basics around what is it that you really value, you value, you value about yourself, your value that you can offer to the world, just life just gets a lot easier. It gets a lot simpler. Decision making gets a lot simpler. When you’re in an interaction with a client or a patient, you know what you can offer then. And you also know what you can’t. And I know there’s stuff that I’m not great at all. Like I’m hopeless at a lot of things <laugh>. But I’m also really great at other things and I don’t mind distinguishing that. And I think for health professionals, it’s okay to own your greatness. It’s also important to acknowledge the things that you need support in. And when we when we don’t do either of those things, that’s when everything just falls apart.

Jo: Absolutely. I love helping people understand that you need your professional development and your personal development. Those two things, they’re not the same for me. They haven’t been the same person. And to try and get them from the same person is pretty unfair to yourself, right? But you used the phrase earlier on in this conversation about how we need to invest in our own development, but it was an investment, it’s not an expense. And understanding that for what it takes for us to be fit for purpose. So because our purpose is changing. Cause the demands are changing. It’s like the rules of the game are changing. What we learned five years ago isn’t necessarily gonna cut it today. No. But who we are five years ago and how we turn up in the world to serve the people we are best able to serve, that’s not gonna change.

Angela: No. And it’s funny, I’ve got just on the left of me in my office on my wall looking at it right now is my values, and I don’t mind sharing them. They’re like purpose and soul, family and belonging, search and meaning, pioneer and progress. Like they’re obviously I’ve done work, I didn’t just magically come up with these, with these phrases, but health and wellbeing and being self. So I look at that. So if I get an email that comes through asking me to do something, if I have to make a business decision or if I have to make a personal decision, I look to that chart on my wall. Like I could tell you them off the top of my head and I go, does this fit in with those? Yes. And that’s how simple it needs to be. But yes, you do have to do work to get to what those values are. It’s not hard work. But you do have to go through some stuff

Jo: <laugh>

Angela: Yeah. To get there. It’s not like imagine they wake up one morning and go, oh my gosh, these are my deep values. But when something’s not working for me, so say if I get asked to take on a project for an organisation and it doesn’t feel right and it doesn’t fit into those values, it’s a hard no.

Jo: Yeah. Wow.

Angela: Because I go, well I’m gonna start that and it’s not gonna be right.

Jo: Yeah. And then we end up resentful. Right. And then we are not conserving energy and then we wear our cranky pants and everybody suffers <laugh>, everybody suffers when Jo puts her cranky pants on, uh, including Jo.

Angela: I think we all have cranky pants <laugh>. I think too, Jo, one of the things too, I think we need to be really kind to ourselves that we will actually derail. There are times where like, I remember I was 30, I sold all my practices. We had three centers, all these allied health professionals. And I can remember a specific moment and I write about it in my first book, Power of Conscious Choice was around what was my decision moment to sell. And it was a hundred percent true. I looked around and I went, what the hell have I created? It was the most amazing magical place for kids. But for me, my newborn daughter was sleeping in the corridor, like in the hallway of this new center that we built in a porta cot. I had my neck in a brace because I had really bad positional vertigo. And I had all these people and I looked around and I went, no, this is not what I had pitched. And I had lost sight of those values. So there are key moments in your life where everything derails and it’s okay. You just gotta know who to tap into and how to get back on track. And that’s where when you are alone and or you don’t have that network, it can take a lot longer for you to get back on track. Or it can be a lot harder. But things like this, like your podcast now is tapping into health professionals and tapping into different people who have been there, done that, that can help you get back on track. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be, you know, years of in-depth therapy,

Jo: <laugh>. No. So you can find a track, you can change tracks, you can create a track, you can destroy a track, but you never have to be reacting to a track that you find yourself on and go, holy heck, how did I end up here? and I hate this. That you always have choice, which is your first book The Power of Conscious Choice. So that’s very powerful. Well, Ange it’s, oh sorry, Angela <laugh>.

Angela: No, fine. Oh I always feels like I’m in trouble when people use ‘Angela’.

Jo: Oh no, it’s like when people go Joanne, I’m like, where’s my mother?

Angela:

I think Angela only from very new people who ever met

Jo: Oh, there we go. I’m trying be respectful here so Ange <laugh> a very important question for you. Yes. What’s your favorite coffee?

Angela: Oh, this is interesting because I’m not a massive coffee drinker. <laugh> I used to be a coffee drinker. Um, I’ll, and sometimes I’ll go off coffee and not have any coffee for months on end. But if I do have one, it’s only because I’m too high energy. Coffee just makes me go a bit nuts. I get shaky but if I do, it’s a latte with half water and half milk. Cause I’m not a big dairy drinker. So for me it’s like I go in and get a coffee and like if I do have it, coffee for me is experience. Yeah. I love the pressing pause moment that having a coffee with somebody does or it’s a beautiful treat.

Jo: Yes. For me, it’s a very mindful moment. They’re very mindful moments.

Angela: Sorry, a long winded explanation.

Jo: No, it’s great. You’d be surprised at how much I can learn about people from asking that question. So we’re gonna start wrapping up now. How can people get in touch with you? What’s your preferred way of people getting in touch with you? Is it on the socials? Do you have a website? How to do it?

Angela: My gosh, Jo, I’m gonna answer this in two ways. Socials, I am terrible at socials, I am so bad at socials and I try every week to be good at socials. I’m just not great at socials. So the best way that my portal to my world is my website, it’s angelalockwood.com.au. And you can find out everything on there. I would just go straight to that. But yeah, the old social media world, that’s my nemesis. I know it’s meant to be good for me and it’s sometimes not, sometimes is, so I just steer clear of it often. <laugh>

Jo: Well I’m gonna ask a different question. Do you think your business suffers because you are not consistently on socials?

Angela: I think it would be enhanced if I was more visual.

Jo: Okay. Right. That’s a nice way to say that. Nicely done, Angela, because I actually have two clients in the US at the moment who have no online presence and they are booked out with waiting lists and are struggling with demand. I didn’t have a website for my private practice for the first two years. So I’m just curious about the amount of pressure we’ve put on ourselves.

Angela: I’m doing okay, Jo, without it being very active, I’m doing okay. But sometimes I wonder, but I wrote a book called Switch Off so <laugh>

Jo: There you go. That’s wonderful. So if you’ve got questions, comments, things you’d like to know from Angela and you’ve forgotten her website, it’ll be in our show notes or you could find me on socials and I’ll get the questions to Angela for you. I strongly recommend you go check out her website, get a copy of her book, make sure that you invest in yourself by learning about who she is because she’s got so much to teach us just about who she is, not what she does.

So until the next episode, I say goodbye. And until then, go be your awesome self.

Published on:
MARCH 21, 2023

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