The #1 Concern That New Health Professionals Have About Their Future

The #1 Concern That New Health Professionals Have About Their Future – with Alyssa Elgersma

New health professionals can bring fresh insights and different experience to our profession and our practices. In this conversation, Jo is joined by Alyssa Elgersma to discuss the opportunities, challenges and concerns that new health professionals have about their future in our profession.

Alyssa Elgersman has a Masters Degree in Clinical Mental Health. She is currently the Program Administrator of Real Connections Counseling. Her professional goals as a therapist is to combine grief and yoga in the counselling room.

You can connect with Latasha via her website at latashamatthews.com.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

If you know you need more support, please visit my website at https://jomuirhead.com

Transcript

Jo:

Welcome to the Entrepreneurial Clinician Podcast. Alyssa, it is so great to have you. Now, I haven’t told you this, but I’m actually really looking forward to this podcast today because I’ve known you for 12 months and you have an incredible way of being able to think about the world, and you are somebody who is moving into licensure or credentialing or having permission to do the work. And I think you have a lot of insights and opportunities for people like myself to learn what it is we don’t know. No pressure, but I’ll guide you through the conversation. But before we get into that, Alyssa, tell us about yourself a little bit more. You mentioned you’re a dog mum, whatcha studying? And why did you choose to study?

Alyssa:

Okay, so I am currently studying to pass my national licensure exam for the United States. So I’m reviewing everything that was taught and not taught in university. And I really liked to relax. I really like to go on long walks. My dad and I have done three half marathons together. But my knees are getting old, so we’re gonna drop down to 10ks <laugh> and do more of those instead.

Jo:

That’s really sweet. Your knees are getting old. Oh, your knees have served you well, they have served you really well, <laugh>.

Alyssa:

Yes. And I’m gonna keep it that way. So I’m trying to listen to what my body’s saying, even though my competitive spirit is like, it’s just another six and a half miles. Just keep going.

Jo:

Yeah. Wow. Oh, please learn that lesson now. That’s very cool. So you are not 20, right?

Alyssa:

No, that was a hot minute ago. <Laugh>

Jo:

<Laugh>. So what made you turn around one day and go, that’s it. I now wanna study my Master’s and go through the rigorous process of becoming licensed to become a mental health professional. Take us through that thought process.

Alyssa:

Yeah. <laugh> I’m actually trying to remember myself as I’m studying for this exam. Like, what that made me decide to do this really, it comes down to people are valuable and they need to be shown that. And if as mental health professionals, we can give them an hour of our time to help them remember that they were created to be valuable and are valued for who they are. And that’s a great thing to do.

Jo:

Absolutely. And I’m hoping the people listening to this podcast today just got the goosebumps that I did, because that is the connection back to purpose piece that I feel like I’m put on the planet to help us remember. I wanna help health professionals everywhere be reconnected to their sense of purpose. So if we can give people an hour to help them remember that they’re precious and they’re valuable, why would we not wanna do that? Way to go, Alyssa.

Alyssa:

Thank you.

Jo:

Gosh. So take us through the process because I’ve got an international audience, and I think Australians would be surprised by the amount of effort that goes into you becoming licensed in the US. Take us through the process. So you have to do a Master’s degree first, right?

Alyssa:

Yes. You have to do a Master’s degree, which I started in May of 2020 and I was done in May, 2022. So it’s about two years. There are different opportunities to do it online or in person. I chose to go online because one, I was not gonna move states to go anywhere in person. And the place I live in didn’t have a program that I felt would benefit me as where I wanted to be in the future as a clinician. And then COVID was happening. So it just was, I won’t say it was easier. I’m not going to give that impression to people that it was easy, but it was just the way life was happening at that time. So there’s that piece, and then each State, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think in Australia, once you become licensed, you can counsel throughout the country. Correct?

Jo:

Correct. We don’t have the state-based borders that you have to deal with.

Alyssa:

Yeah. So we have State-based borders. So each State looks at a clinician’s like, oh, okay. So you could practise in our State, but you have to at least pass the national exam and possibly a jurisprudence test, which is a test based on the legislation of that State. So for example, after I pass my national exam, I’m thinking about taking the jurisprudence for the state of Colorado because it is beneficial here to have multiple licensure. However, I probably won’t until after I get my hours in as a prac in Canada, because you have to have a supervisor in each state. You’re getting your hours in as well.

Jo:

So if you got the hours in Colorado, how many hours of supervised practice do you need to engage in?

Alyssa:

So for the state of Iowa where I live, I need 3000 practice hours.

Jo:

I still fall off my chair when I think about that. So it’s not as simple as going to uni or going to college, getting your Master’s degree, getting a job, turning out and being job ready and getting paid to see clients like that. So here in Australia, we don’t do that here in Australia either, by the way. But the rigorousness of the supervision and the examination thing, I think is a little different. That’s always been fairly confronting to me <laugh>, because I’m like, I didn’t go anywhere near that much. But that’s cool. So one of the reasons that I asked you to come on and be a part of not only this podcast, but also facilitate at the symposium panel because I want us to start thinking as a profession about what contributions have Gen Xers like me and the people who have gone before me, what have we made, what are we not doing so well, and what opportunities exist for the generations coming through?

So I’ve got some structured questions for you now ’cause that’s not a fair question. So if you are a practice owner listening to this today, or if you wanna build team, this is an important conversation because the issues that Alyssa is gonna bring up are going to be the issues that your team members have, and it’s gonna be much easier for you to learn and listen to them in this non-threatening environment than sitting down trying to have this conversation with your team members ’cause Alyssa’s not attached to you in any way, <laugh>, she’s just gonna say it how it is which is why we love her. So what are some of the concerns that you have about your professional future?

Alyssa:

I would say one of my concerns is AI. There can be pros and cons to that. And with the generation, like, I’m in my thirties, so as you often say, you grew up without the internet. I also did

Jo:

<Laugh>. Okay. Good point.

Alyssa:

So now with AI coming and being more part of our lives and social media and all that, I’m a little concerned that I’m gonna say the seriousness of our profession will kind of be taken for granted.

Jo:

Wow. So you can see AI and the potentially the rise of social media conversations about mental health as somehow devaluing, is that what you’re kind of saying?

Alyssa:

Yeah, that is my personal fear. Like, I know there are good pieces to like social media and quick videos on skills that we can gain such as grounding skills. But all over the world, we work really hard to do what we do. And as I’m studying for my exam, I’m realising that there is a significant difference between a counsellor and talking to a friend.

Jo:

Yeah, Or a <laugh> influencer who wants to share with you the last six weeks of their journey and trying, and then you get excited about it going, oh, this is gonna cure my social anxiety disorder because this is what this person did. They drank water for 40 days or whatever.

Alyssa:

I wish I just drank one day

Jo:

<Laugh>. Oh no, I’m talking about the water only diet. Anyhow, I watch a lot of Instagram, a lot of my research comes from Instagram. It’s a fascinating study in human behaviour,

Alyssa:

Which is great. So then like with AI, they don’t have humans insight. I mean, they don’t have that ability to read the room and read what the possible client’s trying to tell us ’cause we know body language means something.

Jo:

And my assumption here is that our higher education schools are not incorporating how we as health professionals need to become prepared for the influx of AI into study. I’m assuming you haven’t got a subject on that.

Alyssa:

Yes. As I went through school and finished it, that had not really become a thing yet. So they were still telling us to be blank slates

Jo:

Yeah. And like I have said time and time again, if we wait for educational institutions, regulators, and governments to make the changes first it won’t happen. We need to advocate for change. So, Jo’s soapbox moment. So AI feels like a bit of an intrusion, a bit of a threat, a bit of a devaluer of our skillset. Anything else about your professional future that might concern you that we can talk about?

Alyssa:

No, that’s the main one. I think my second one would be that clinician burnout because I fear that they won’t want to train other younger clinicians as well as they need to be trained.

Jo:

Yep. I agree. I thank you for bringing that up. That’s certainly a concern that I have had with other people who are newly entering into the profession. Talk to me about going, I can’t find a supervisor. I can’t find somebody who will mentor me. I actually had somebody reach out via social media going, you’re all burnt out. Nobody wants to help me. And I’m like, whoa. And then my son, who is not a health professional, and he actually says, mum, why would people wanna enter in a profession when everybody is all over social media talking to each other about how burnt out you are? I’m like, good PR point sunshine. So on one hand we’ve been like, we’ve gotta talk about this stuff. We need to talk about this stuff together. But on the other hand, we’re saying to the world who maybe not the people you need. Like that’s a crazy conversation.

Alyssa:

Yeah. So then that also brings up another topic. And I think you posted a mini video about this. How do we care for ourselves well so we can continue caring for others?

Jo:

Yeah. I was confronted by that question this week ’cause I was out walking Smudge and I was so resentful that I had to take him for a walk. And I was so annoyed that it was gonna take me 45 minutes to do this short walk that he needed because he needs to do his things and he’s a dog and I asked for it and I need to be out there and I need to be doing my self care and God forbid I’ve got so many things. And then I heard myself talking and went, what the actual hell Jo? <laugh> This is actually supposed to be about you connecting with Smudge, you giving your brain a rest ’cause you know it needs a rest. You’re enjoying your body ’cause look, you’re moving pain free today. That doesn’t happen every day, right? And so it was just like, what am I so afraid of if I put my self-care first? Like, what am I so afraid of? That was a very confronting moment. So yes, of course I shared that.

Do you have any concerns about finances and how much you could earn as a clinician? Does that come up for you at all? Or is it more about how I get looked after in this space?

Alyssa:

For me personally, I’m not concerned with my finances just because it’s a thing, our profession ebbs and flows. We’ll have clients. We won’t have clients. But I’m more concerned with the looking after part. Because as you brought up, it’s a bunch of us saying like, oh, we’re feeling burnt out. But now the general public is realising this. So then they’re like, well, they put up this facade for so long. So how are these tired people gonna help me be less tired?

Jo:

Yeah. Great question. So I think it’s really important for those listening because for those of us who are running a multi-clinician practices, we often think that the way we retain quality staff is by throwing more money at them. Because as Gen Xs and using myself as the example, that’s how we used to stay ’cause we were the generation that just worked freaking hard that led to the point where we’re now so exhausted. So I wanna make it really, really clear that the generations coming through, they need wages to live on. They need good quality income, but it’s not the only thing that needs to be taken into consideration. They are concerned about how you as an employer are gonna look after them. Please look after your people. So what are some of the things that you would like to see change in the profession of helping and health? So if you could have that money’s no object, time is no object. You’ve got the special magic wand and you get three things to change. What are those things that you would like to see change?

Alyssa:

So my first one would be, I would like to have classes to study for the exam. I’m using an online program, which is fine, but I’d do better in class. So just have that available. My second would be businesses in kind would donate each other’s self-care to other people. So those struggling or who are like, hey I can’t afford a gym membership right now, but I know that if I don’t get out and sometimes walking in nature’s not someone’s thing. Sometimes they really like the gym. So if they were donating a three month membership that could get ’em on track or just keep ’em on track. And then maybe, and within that three months, they will be better in a better spot to help them out. And same for massages or just counselling in general. Because the other thing I would change is that counsellors would have good counsellors to go to.

Jo:

YeahI would never in a gazillion years have thought about that services in kind approach to self-care. And now I’ve got a whole brainwave happening about building a social enterprise that takes care of that need. But the first thing that came to my mind was like yin yoga, trauma-informed yoga, any of those thematic experiences. Just breaking the isolation, getting people together to not have an intense chat, going and having coffee and just going, I get it. It’s hard. And that the good quality counsellors that get the cultural needs or the specific needs of this population now, not the needs that they used to be, or not from the textbook of questions you’re supposed to ask. That’s great because it worries me that people are coming to me going, can you help me find a supervisor? I can’t find anyone. But that’s in Australia and in the US now we know that the clinical supervision directory <laugh> exists to help bridge this gap. But she needs some help. She’s looking for quality supervisors. That’s a great discussion. Thank you so much for bringing that up. So if we could create the ultimate ah, okay. The ultimate six months self-care package ’cause your parents are counsellors, right?

Alyssa:

Yeah, they are.

Jo:

Okay. So can you create for me the ultimate self-care package for your parents for six months? You’ve got six months time and money is no object. What are we gonna put in this package?

Alyssa:

So my parents do a unique thing with their counselling, and they are in the room at the same time with their couples. So it’s called co-therapy. It’s great. I wish all counselling was kind of like that. So for them I would include a weekly date night, and they do that anyway. But then if money’s no object, then they are gym people, so I’d include a gym membership.

Jo:

Great.

Alyssa:

I’d also include on their wishlist is kayaks, they really like to go kayaking. I don’t like to get wet, so I prefer to watch them from the shore. And then I think I would also include two weeks paid vacation to whoever they wanna go. But it has to be, but my caveat would be, it would have to be a time zone away so they can’t actually deal with work because Oh no, it’s 8:00 AM and it’s like midnight where they live. So, and they can actually just relax

Jo:

And disconnect completely.

Alyssa:

Yes.

Jo:

Yeah. That’s a really cool package ’cause we often think that self-care needs to be almost like a transaction. I’m self-caring today, so I’m taking myself to get my nails done. And it’s just so limited and not saying don’t do that. It just needs to be a part of what we do. I was having a conversation I was on, I was interviewed for another podcast yesterday, and the conversation came up. It was like, Jo, who are the people in your world that help you stay healthy to do this work? And we wrote a list. So I have a physiotherapist in my world because I do a lot of sitting, right? And I also have a range of musculoskeletal things that need to be taken care of. So I have a physiotherapist in my world. I have a massage therapist in my world, because I hold a lot in my body when I’m doing clinical work. I have a clinical supervisor all the time in Australia, we don’t stop that. Once we get credentialed, we need to keep that going. We’ve gotta have that in our world. I have a coach, somebody who helps me think. Right? So I have a coach in my world because it’s a different relationship than talking about my work clinically. So the coach in my work. So we’re up to four people. <Laugh> Then I’ve got the people that help me with my exercise and going out and doing all that sort of stuff. I also have an executive assistant and I have a business manager. They help me. So already we’re up to seven people to help me and I don’t think we’ve really spent enough time thinking about what it takes for us to turn up healthy.

Alyssa:

Yes.

Jo:

Yeah. That’s really cool. Thank you for bringing that up. And let’s see what we can do to bring about this change. Okay. So you’ve got some great role models in your world doing this work. Aka, your parents. But I’m starting to introduce you to other people in the world and you are gonna be talking to them during the symposium as well. So what are some of the lessons, whether they’re positive or negative, but what are some of the lessons that you’ve learned from the people who have gone before you in this industry?

Alyssa:

So positive. Just keep going. Like I said before, clients ebb and flow and it’s really easy to get discouraged when the list isn’t full.

Jo:

Yeah.

Alyssa:

Because real life happens and we’re adults and we have bills and it becomes overwhelmed. But just keep going because you usually have that one client come back and say, Hey, remember when you told me this? I used it and it worked. And then you’re like, I don’t remember saying that, but yay!

Jo:

<Laugh>. Good job.

Alyssa:

So it’s nice because when that happens, the client brings back the value that we forget as clinicians that we do have as human beings.

Jo:

Yeah. Nice.

Alyssa:

So that’s a positive. Let’s see. The negative I would go with putting off self-care.

Jo:

Yeah. Wow.

Alyssa:

Such, and it’s a fad phrase right now. But if we break it down like self and then stop it there, and then we go down to care and we break that down and we don’t put it together. That really could change your perspectives.

Jo:

Absolutely. Yeah. Which is why I’ve tried to talk about care of self. Yes. How do I care for myself and change the conversation ’cause I think self-care, like a lot of other buzzwords and buzz phrases, and we hear them so much that they become meaningless. They just wash off. So I’m trying to interrupt that conversation by going, how are you caring for yourself? How are you caring for yourself? And because I struggle with this, I really do struggle with it. It’s not been easy for me. But I don’t wanna get to the point where I need more. Like I need more help from health professionals. And the only people available to me are burned out, overextended, exhausted, over caffeinated, overstimulated, disengaged health professionals ’cause they’re not gonna provide me good care.

Alyssa:

No. So those are my main ones, one negative and one positive.

Jo:

Yeah. Nicely done. You’ve done very well there. So do you think that with the symposium coming up, you’re going have the opportunity to speak to three people, Australians and Americans who have been doing this work for quite a period of time, like 30 years plus.

Alyssa:

I’m so excited.

Jo:

So what’s one of the things that you wanna know from these people?

Alyssa:

Honestly, how do you take potty breaks during the day?

Jo:

Nice.

Alyssa:

<Laugh> without feeling like you’re putting others out.

Jo:

Such a great question. I’m gonna hold you to that because that’s not just a funny question. That question opens up so much discussion for how we actually relate to our work. Very cool. All right. So Alyssa, when we get together again in real life which is probably gonna happen next year. <Laugh>. And we go to a cafe. What coffee are you ordering?

Alyssa::

So my body doesn’t digest coffee. Fun fact about me.. So I drink chai. It will probably be hot always. And if my extra sweet tooth comes in, I’ll probably be a vanilla chai with coconut milk or it’s just a general chai.

Jo:

Excellent. I can do that ’cause That’s fairly short and sweet. And I’ll probably look at you going, have I asked for this correctly? Beautiful. So Alyssa, if people want to get to know you a little bit more before the symposium starts, where can they find you?

Alyssa:

Well I’m not really anywhere.

Jo:

Oh, but you’re in the Future Proofing Health Professionals Facebook group.

Alyssa:

Yes. But that proves how much I’m like on Facebook. But if you wanted to read my bio and you could go to realconnectionscounseling.com. I’m currently the program administrator there and I just got a little short one. And you can also read all about the dogs I’ve already mentioned.

Jo:

Oh, that’s great. <Laugh>. I actually made sure Smudge was not in the room today ’cause I wanted to focus on this conversation.

Alyssa:

My dog’s in their nap time.

Jo:

Great. So Alyssa, thank you so much for being a part of the Entrepreneurial Clinician Podcast. I really appreciate your candid conversation with us today. For those of you who wanna know more about Alyssa, more about the Future Proofing Health Professionals Facebook group and the Symposium, which is coming up this September, head to the show notes, come find me on social media. Let’s make sure you don’t miss out. And until next time, go be your awesome self.