Unleashing Entrepreneurial Clinicians, Navigating Mental Health, Marketing and Authenticity – with Ernesto Segismundo

It’s often challenging for health professionals to shift from a clinician mindset towards an entrepreneurial one. How do you show up authentically in your marketing and in your practice and how do you look after your mental health while doing so? These are some of the topics Jo explores in this wide-ranging conversation with therapist and serial entrepreneur, Ernesto Segismundo.

You can connect with Ernesto Segismundo via the CAV Academy or on Instagram.  

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• You, The Entrepreneurial Clinician

• Future-Proofing Health Professionals Facebook group

If you know you need more support, please visit my website at https://jomuirhead.com

Transcript

Jo:

So welcome back to another episode of the Entrepreneurial Clinician Podcast. I am a little bit excited today and I have an incredibly special guest, special because he’s very well known, but special because he’s got a special place in my heart. We’ve known each other for nearly 10 years now. And yeah, <laugh> and I have seen this gentleman grow up in the entrepreneurial space. And I learn a lot and admire him greatly and also love to be a part of his world. But I’m gonna let him introduce himself to you. Take it away.

Ernesto:

We know why you’re having me introduce myself to the audience because you can’t say my last name. Right. So that’s fine. It’s all good. My name is Ernesto and last name Segismundo. I’m an entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur. So I own a group practice that’s licensed in both California and Nevada. I own Cav Academy, which is an all encompassing continual education and retreat summit organisation where I host summits from all over the United States. And now we’re venturing into the international realm. I do retreats under Cav Academy as well too. I’m also a property investor and a real estate investor. So I bought a three homes to host retreats in them. And I’m trying to teach other mental health professionals to do the same, to think outside of the box, to buy properties and to host retreats in them. Just like many clinicians do that when they buy buildings and therapy buildings, I wanna do the same thing with houses to host retreats in them. And I’m also on the side, a marketing business coach that helps you to brand your business in whatever capacity, whether it be retreats, summits, all it is trying to have some sort of an identity and some sort of a relationship with your target audience. So I kind of teach those aspects of the entrepreneurial space and I’m glad to be here, Jo.

Jo:

I’m really glad to have you here as well. Thank you so much for being so open with all of the things that you do because one of the difficulties and challenges we have as health professionals, regardless of whether you’re a mental health professional or any other type of health professional, is we kind of feel a little bit cagey about well, I’ve got all of these different ways I earn an income and I don’t wanna talk about it too much because you might judge me and I don’t wanna become too wealthy because then you’re gonna all judge me. Cause you know, and now you’re nodding your head vehemently here. So, you know what I’m talking about. And I know one of the things you speak into a lot is about helping challenging these mindsets around money. And what it’s for.

But that’s not the purpose of today’s episode. I want to talk to you and I wanna share with our audiences your overnight success. Now, where this comes from is, you know, you and I refer to each other. We have different people in our world. And, and people go, I just wanna be like Ernesto. And I’ll go, oh, okay, cool. How long have you known him? And they’re like, oh, I found him six months ago. And I start to giggle <laugh>. They’re like, so you wanna be the Ernesto that we see now? Okay. Glad I asked that question. So I said, well, that’s really cool. I’ve known him for 10 years, so that’s why I had to ask that question. I just wanna make sure we are clear about that. And then when I start to peel back what I’ve observed you to do to get to where you are, people’s jaws drop. They kind of realise, oh, I don’t know if I’ve got that in me. And I don’t want this episode to be, oh my God, it’s all too hard. I don’t wanna do it. I want it to be a bit of a reality check, but also give everybody hope that this is how we go about doing this.

So can you remember what you were doing around 10 years ago when we met? Can you remember what you were doing for work? How were you generating income? What was going on for you back then?

Ernesto:

I do remember that I actually ventured away from community mental health. And for those of you who worked in community mental health, I mean, it’s just one of the most toxic environments that any mental health professionals work. I mean, you’re in salary and you’re seeing these clients that are just over the top and causing a lot of strain within you. So around that time I was getting off of that and I was also part of an organisation that I was seeing clients part-time and all that stuff. And then I discovered video marketing film it.com was around that time. That was a time when I discovered this new venture in marketing. 2015, I believe it started around where I discovered a new form of marketing, which is social media and videos.

And it was somewhat unheard of in the world of mental health. I mean real estate agents were actually using it prior to anything else. So I just remember around that time where I was just trying to figure out what my niche was, what I was trying to do. And then I discovered this art, this visual art, which is marketing. And so I think around that time too, I was also teaching at a university part-time as an adjunct professor. So, around this time, I was just all over the map trying to discover who I am in the professional space and what I was going to contribute, not only in the mental health community, but also to the general community around me. So that’s what I was trying to remember around that time.

Jo:

Yeah. And it’s definitely what I remember around that time, here was this gentleman that I got to meet at what was launching me into a speaking career, right? So it was my first speaking gig in the USA. And you and I met, and we kind of clicked because I understood video marketing. I understood the power that it was going to become. But like you, there’d been a little bit of ridicule, I mean, I was receiving emails from my professionals back here in Australia who were saying, please don’t do that. That’s terrible. We should not be doing that in this space. And I’m like, okay. And then I get to meet you, and you just walked around everywhere with the selfie stick. Like, you’re ubiquitous thing. There’s a selfie stick. That must be an Ernesto <laugh>.

Ernesto:

Yes.

Jo:

It was a lot of fun!

Ernesto:

Yeah. It was a lot of fun. Because around that time we were discovering what it was like to show up. To show up and, and then you place a camera in front of you, then you really have to show up. Right? There’s a lot of catered and curtailed identity out there on social media. But one of the things that I’ve learned is authenticity is key in marketing, right? Whether it be a selfie or, or just a reality and of life in general. I try to showcase that on social media as much as I can, because there’s the upside of not showing that, right. Of playing into this toxic belief that everything is like a flowing river when you are doing a business. And part of my journey has not been that, and to this day, life happens, right? And so we have to move as the currents move, but at the same time, do not lose yourself and do not drown. So that’s where I’m coming from with my identity and my brand on social media.

Jo:

That’s fantastic. Which speaks right into my thoughts and my current thinking, which is don’t sacrifice yourself to this work. Like, there’s ways of being able to do this work so that you don’t actually have to sacrifice yourself to it. But I just wanna help people understand a little bit more. So when we met, you were seeing clients privately, so you transitioned outta community mental health. You’re an adjunct professor. You just started into this whole new business around video creation and social media marketing. But when I think of an adjunct professor, I assume that somebody who’s highly intelligent got straight A’s for everything, high distinctions for everything was the most academic person on the planet. You don’t strike me as being terribly academic.

Ernesto:

Absolutely not. <laugh>.

Jo:

<Laugh>.

Ernesto:

Phew. I’m a proud C minus student <laugh>. It wasn’t until I was in grad school where I was reaching B’s and A’s. But no, I struggled with attention and A D H D, it wasn’t really discovered until I believe my senior year in college. And so that put a name to it. And being in Hawaii and Filipino mental health is at the back burner. So we don’t really talk about mental health in general. So when I discovered and fully got diagnosed with A D H D and on the low end, it shows up as depression and anxiety, right? So occasionally I have these bouts of depression and anxiety mostly in the depression world.

But what many people don’t know about this type of condition is that in the entrepreneurial space, it can be a propellant for creativity. It could be a repellent to creativity as well, too. So there’s that two spectrums, right? For A D H D with me who have hyperactivity and inattention type. The gas pedal is my foot is always at the gas pedal. And it’s all about trying to figure out what the balance is, or if there’s a balance at all. Now, the other end spectrum is the depression piece. And not very many people know this, but depression really comes out and there’s inspiration in it, no matter how uncomfortable it is, because it forces you to reflect, it forces you to get into your suffering. It forces you into questioning your world and your purpose and your meaning.

Ernesto:

And so when you experience depression, it’s not always a bad thing. At least from my point of view, because when I’m in that space, oh my gosh, it does suck. I’m not gonna make that sexy at all <laugh>. But in those moments, I have inspiration, I have thoughts, I have this part of me that is connected to God that tells me, whoa. All right, be with it. Sit with it. What is it inspiring you to do? Or to act to act on in the moment? So these are the areas, but yeah, I’m telling you from my mindset, from everything else, what I grew up with, with the poverty mentality, the limiting beliefs, I had to work through all of that. And with the entrepreneurial space that I’m in right now, it helps me to connect better with other people who I’m coaching, who I’m engaging with, because it makes me feel like I’m more connected to those who are struggling.

Jo:

Nice.

Ernesto:

Yeah.

Jo:

Nice. Wow. That’s beautifully authentic. So if you’re not watching this on, on the video recording, and you’re hearing this Ernesto’s posture completely changes when he talks about this, and it doesn’t mean that he’s acting. It just shows you the level of engagement and the level of connectedness that he has to himself. That he just goes, you know, this is my suffering, but it has a purpose. And my purpose is to help you identify your purpose. It was actually really beautiful to watch, so thank you for sharing that with me. One of the things that I’ve noticed about you is that you always come from a place of service. It’s like, you can’t not serve <laugh>. So you chose to move out of community mental health cause you needed to serve yourself probably.

But there was a possibility that, you know, I can serve people differently if I’m out here, then you are in the universities or the colleges and you are serving students. And then cause you had this whole student following for a really long time and you’re doing all this stuff for new graduates and making the world a better place for new graduates and associates. And then you started teaching people how to turn up on camera. It’s like, you guys, everybody needs to know how to do this. It’s like, I’m here to show you how to do it. I wanna make it as comfortable for you to do it. I’m gonna turn up with all the stuff. All you need to do is sit in front of a camera. And then you realised, oh, that’s the bit people struggle with <laugh>. Right.

Ernesto:

Right. Showing up. Absolutely. Showing up. Because the critical part of us comes up. Right? You know, I really appreciate that, Jo, that you brought out the servanthood and that’s one of my reflections as well too. Now there’s always that spectrum, right? The servanthood that always worked to my benefit because I’m the belief that leaders are meant to be servers, right? They’re meant to be at a point where they are not at the top. They’re actually at the very bottom. And my purpose for that, and my belief with that is you always make other people better. And I think that’s what a leader is. They make other people better. And so it works with my group practice where every day I show up for them, no matter how I feel in the moment, no matter what I’m going through in the moment.

But I have to show up for them because I want them to be better. Now, the reciprocity part of that is that they in turn help my businesses to grow. But I’m doing it at a place where I love to see people excel. Because that’s how you scale. That is basically scaling. You build your system, you build the people in there, and then they start scaling for you and going over and over and over again. It’s not always an easy thing, but it’s a gradual relational approach to leadership. For me as a servant you know, I grew up with a father who worked in the hotel industry and the restaurant industry where he was a dishwasher. So that was his profession. My mum worked in the hotels and she was she was what do you call those

Jo:

Hotel service, clean the rooms. I remember this story.

Ernesto:

Yes, yes, yes. And so, both of them, I grew up seeing that. And so that seeped into my family and, and our perception of servanthood, you know? And that’s also the Filipino culture where we are servants. On the flip side of that, we have to learn now I have to learn boundaries. As a leader, what the boundaries are. So that part of me that people love seeing the servanthood, but then there’s that part of me too that I have to work on separating my ego from my business and not being so co-dependent on the health or the health of my business, right? So I have to separate myself from that and be a little bit more grounded at who I am.

Jo:

Yeah. That’s a developmental phase that we all face. <Laugh>, I might get you to come back and talk into that in some more depth. But the place of serving, just to give people some context, it’s not just what I observed 10 years ago, like from the filmit.com days and the building of your own group practice days to your speaking, to your creating opportunities for speakers to the very first summit that you created, or whatever it was. You saw the need, you saw the need in the people, and you said, these people need to get together. They need to learn from each other. I wanna showcase their talents, and I wanna share my beautiful part of the world with them. You served us, and then after Covid you went, people need to get together again.

Jo:

But they’re craving this intimacy. The big events are still not quite where it’s at, but they’re craving intimacy and desiring intimate connection. How can I serve them? Oh, I know. I’ll go buy some houses, <laugh> and start hosting retreats in these houses, <laugh>, and then people can pay to use my house. And the reason why I bring that up is cause I’m doing one of those next year, but it’s like, you went, how else can I serve? What else do these people need? We haven’t even seen the need yet. You are, you know, five or six steps ahead of us going, no, this is what you need. I’ll bring you along with me. It’s quite an incredible thing to observe.

Ernesto:

Oh, wow. I never really saw it that way, but now that I I think about it, Jo. Wow. I love that. That’s an eye opener for me. Because, you know, I love it. I I love that piece. You see people doing summits already which is great. I love that. I love the differences in summits. I love the diversity of it. I love the approach to these new creative summits. And also the retreats. Everyone right now in that space are very creative. I love promoting that as well, too. Now, I think you’re right. I’d love to take things a little bit further. A few people who came out here to Vegas to do a retreat one of the days we’re like, Hey, why don’t I show you guys some of the houses that are available here?

And so we would walk in these model homes, and they’re inspired, right? I’m teaching them my model. Like, Hey, you could do this in, in this town, or whatever town. So I love that creativity into a larger space of, Hey, why don’t we think a little bit bigger? Buy your own property and host your retreats in them. Or you can rent it out to other people, right? So there’s a whole new possibility out there. Now, I’m not saying that it’s gonna be easy because I’m discovering that now. There’s so many logistics, so many things that I’m discovering that, oh, I gotta really think about this. So in this space, just learning the ins and outs of how to run a retreat and how to make it flow. It’s like the first time you have a group practice, you create a group practice, you have to find the system. You have to find the right people. For me, it’s not the people, it’s the houses. My workers are actually the houses that I bought, right? So I’ve invested in them just like my employees. So it’s a whole new model where I’m trying to create and it’s been a ride. I’m hoping that, you know, I discover a strict system here where I could share that system once someone who moves into that space.

Jo:

Great. Ooh, that’s exciting. Cause I was gonna ask you what’s next? There we have it folks. And what’s exciting for me is watching you and watching how this has happened. I mean, my business has always been about creating wealth through property for me in Australia, right? I don’t wanna be doing this business forever. I’ve never built it to sell it. It’s just not been in my head. What it has done is allowed us to buy investment properties that allowed us to buy our forever home. But now I’m like, I want a beach pad and I want a beach pad in that suburb over there, and I want a beach pad in that suburb over there so I can bring these people together and share the beach and show them the octopus down by the local octopus. There’s a friendly octopus at the beach. So it’s like, okay, I can do this. I’m inspired and I’m encouraged. How do I create my cash to flow in such a way that it releases funds that allow me to go and do this? Right? And it’s quite obvious you don’t think in a step-by-step process. So the hard work for you is actually learning, okay, I’ve done this enough times now, is there a system here? Is there a process here? It’s very cool to watch.

Ernesto:

You know, Jo, one thing that I’m really impressed by with you is that I had no idea I was doing that actually. <Laugh> You pegged me big time. What I normally do, and a lot of creatives, they start a project, they move through the project and then they sift through that system. Is there something that I can do to work through this? Is there a working system? And I’m in that midst of it right now, Jo, that’s pretty impressive. I’ve never really thought about it from that perspective, but you’re absolutely right. Some people say, they fly a plane and they build a plane at the same or something like that. Right? It’s just one of those things for me, you’re right. I start a project, I wake up in the morning going, you know I think I’m gonna do this. I don’t know how to do it, but I’m gonna do it cause I know that there’s some sort of a system in there that I can figure out. And if it doesn’t work, let me redefine it. If I really wanna go after it, that’s where I’m gonna go.

Jo:

Yeah. And I get so excited. Cause I, I actually do a lot of work with adults with A D H D or who are neurotypical and I cut my teeth on working with young men with brain injury. So for me being able to see this and go, right, how are you using your brain to get the best out of you? It’s kind of a part of my secret sauce <laugh>. It’s like, I don’t wanna try and feed your weaknesses. I actually wanna pull the strengths out of you. Love it. So it’s part of my zone of genius.

Ernesto:

I love it. You know, as soon as you said that, it’s like, it gave me permission to continue doing that. Because you’re right, right now in this moment with what I’m doing with, with the homes, with the retreats, I’m still in that space of looking for that right system. I’m not quite there yet. I’m almost there. But I would want to be able to write it down on paper and put it in a little book and give it to other people, right? It’s like, Hey, here’s a secret sauce for you. Here’s at least the guidelines to follow and then go from there.

Jo:

Yeah. Very cool. <Laugh>, look out for that people. Cause it’ll probably come in the next 24 hours <laugh> cause you work fast. Like you work really fast. Okay? So it’s quite obvious now for anybody who’s been listening that you’re not an overnight success. That you actually had to fight and build and create and reiterate yourself and learn new things as you go. If you could think about one thing that you, not to, and don’t wanna put you in a place of regret, but what’s one thing that you now know that you wish you knew 10 years ago?

Ernesto:

Slow down.

Jo:

Wow. Not what I was expecting <laugh>.

Ernesto:

Slow down.

Jo:

Wow.

Ernesto:

Absolutely. Slow down. As soon as you said 24 hours, you know? Yeah. I’ve been working on mindfulness and grounding myself and breathing. You know, because your brain can only handle so much. And I was in such a denial about the pace by which I was doing things. And you know, it’s a reality check, right? My businesses grew so fast that I just had to plug in whatever system that was there, right? Now I’m working backwards to rewrite my own system, to rewrite my own brain, the way it thinks. I really, really know when I’m doing coaching, I’m asking a lot of questions. Is this aligned with your values? Do you have a timeline? What’s the purpose of you doing it? How are you doing it that would not compromise your relationship with other people? So for many of you who’ve listened to my first podcast I had a reality check where my group practice was just on a rampage of doing well. And then we discovered in the first quarter that there were so many gaps in the system. And so I was really, really at a point of, oh my gosh, what is happening here?

Jo:

<Affirmative>. So when you say gaps in the system, were they financial gaps? Were they resource gaps? Like were they, were they uncomfortable gaps? Like if it wasn’t broken, why do you need to fix it sort of thing?

Ernesto:

Yeah. It was a financial gap. It’s a resource gap. I mean, it was just all over the map big time. So that was something that I was discovering.

Jo:

Yeah. That’s uncomfortable. If I can share, I thought my private practice was at a point where I didn’t need to be the face of it anymore. So when I got sick a couple of years ago with cancer, and I took myself out of the business, I was shocked when my business shrunk by two thirds because I thought I didn’t need to be the face of it anymore. I thought that it had grown into something that was bigger than me. So that was a bit of a rude awakening. <Laugh>.

Ernesto:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So now I’m at a point where I’m trying to figure out, you know, what is aligned with my values and then moving forward from there.

Jo:

Isn’t that interesting? When we started out with this? I bet. Did you have the values conversation with yourself when you moved out of community mental health? It’s like, this is not aligned with my values. My values are over here.

Ernesto:

I was like, no, I’m just gonna get outta here because I’m freaking stressed out.

Jo:

Okay. <Laugh>, that’s it.

Ernesto:

No value systems, nothing. No exploration, nothing like that.

Jo:

I just find the whole conversation around values so intriguing because we think we know what our values are because we read them in a book or somebody takes us through an exercise or somebody, we read a blog post and we think, oh, I know what my values are. They’re integrity, they’re honesty, they’re authenticity. Right? And then I’ll start coaching people and I’ll go, you actually don’t value that at all. You actually value certainty and significance and learning. And they’re like, what do you mean, <laugh>? They’re not in the list of values I get to choose from

Ernesto:

<Laugh>. No, no, I love that. I love that because there’s always a place where you have to reflect on these things, right? I’m still at a phase where I’m allowing myself to discover new value systems coming in. It’s always not evolving, but it’s always adding to the values that I currently have. You know, what you mentioned, significance. Significance is a huge thing. Significance with everything that I do, with the things that I’m doing now. Because my journey really propelled itself after my mom’s passing, right? And then now taking care of my dad who is in dementia and unable to walk by himself or go to the restroom by himself. You think of all of those things and you start reevaluating your value system going, huh, is this really what I want in my life? So it really propels you for that moment, right? To think about these areas.

Jo:

Yeah. No, it certainly does. And, and if you think that your values are a static thing, then I’ve got news for you, <laugh>. Because the way you interpret and live out your values at 20 is different to 30 is different to 40, which I can tell you is completely different to when you’re in your fifties.

Ernesto:

<Laugh>. That’s right. And when your business takes a turn or an increase in health or decrease in whatever, then you start reevaluating your values again.

Jo:

Yep. I did not expect you to say the thing that you wish you had known 10 years ago was to slow down. That was such a surprise cause I went, well, you know what? You’re probably right. If you had slow down, if you had learned to do that 10 years ago, there might have been differences. But we’re not here to regret cause we can always learn. So I’m gonna turn the conversation a little differently now, and hopefully you find this as amusing as I did. You and I are both known for our quality typos. You are the king. I am the queen of the typo. Ever received an email from either Ernesto and I? There’ll be typos in it. Yeah. We don’t really care. But they’re there. You can still read it. It doesn’t diminish the message. And if you need to be that pedantic to show us the errors of our way, like, God bless you, <laugh>. What’s that American saying? Bless your heart. <Laugh>.

Ernesto:

Yes. It’s more the South. Bless your heart.

Jo:

Bless your heart. <Laugh>. Yes. we’re not as kind here. We would be swearing. But apart from the queen and the king of the typo, is there something that you do fairly frequently that you kind of go, ah, I did that thing again. Damn it. I wish I hadn’t done that.

Ernesto:

<Laugh>? Well, yeah. Oh my gosh, I can choose. I mean, there’s so many times of, what did I just freaking do right now? Like, are you freaking kidding me? Nothing is coming up at the top of my head right now. But one thing that I know for sure that I am always at a point where why did you just do that? I offer myself to other people, <laugh> just automatically, you know, it’s like saying yes. And then I go, why did I just say that? Like, where did that come from? And then I’m kicking myself because I can’t really back out or sometimes I can’t back out of that thing where I just said that automatically. You know, that’s a part of me that’s like, oh, I don’t wanna offend people by saying no kind of thing.

Jo:

That’s interesting. I’m good at that too. It’s like I said, cause I think, I think you and I learnt very early on that even if we didn’t know how to do something, we’d say yes and work it out. We’d say yes and work it out. Like we both like concrete opportunities to learn, like ephemeral thinking about concepts, things not something either of us tend to be good. Well it’s okay, but we don’t do it a lot. So if somebody gives us an opportunity to learn something, it’s like, yes, I’ll work it out. So I wonder cause that’s one of mine as well, I say yes and then go, well I’ve got no time to create the income this week. What happened there? <Laugh>? So I wonder if it’s because we got so used to saying yes, it’s like the neural pathway in our brain. It’s just that yes thing is switched on. Now we’re at a place where we’ve kind of gotta go. hmm maybe not.

Ernesto:

Yeah. I’ve been able to catch it once in a while, you know? Lately I’ve had folks asking me, Hey, do you wanna partner up on something? Or can you let me speak at one of your events? So now I’m kind of backing up and going, you know what, let me get back to you. Let me get to know you first and then we can move forward. But you know, it’s just one of those things where I have to be very, very careful now of watching what I do and being mindful about the impulses that come up once in a while.

Jo:

Yeah. Wow. And that still comes from that place of wanting to serve. Like, that’s just so delightful. It’s like, I’m gonna say yes cause I know I can help, I know I can serve you. And then it’s like, oops, hang on a minute. What have I said yes to?  <laugh>.

Ernesto:

Right? And the value system shifts that perspective, you know? My value system now or where I wanna be is serving people, is hosting and I don’t necessarily wanna be on stage anymore, only if I have to host, you know, it was a big thing in my life before but now I just wanna put place other speakers on my stage or a stage and just, here you go.

Jo:

I love it. Alright, so we’ve been going for half an hour now. So I would love to know, how can people find you? How do we find you? Because in my case, you’re all over my social media, but there’ll be people who’ve never heard of you who listen to this podcast today. So how do they find you?

Ernesto:

Yeah, you know, look for me on Facebook, I mean that’s where I really engage with people and on Instagram. Social media is a really big thing for me where I share my world, my life, my ups and downs, my struggles and also the victories. You know, that’s in my business as well too. The other is cavacademy.com. That’s where you can find a list of all the events that I got going for 2024 and 2025. And so you will not see much on the end of 2024 and 2025 because I’m making a commitment to slow down a little bit. Now I say this in this podcast, Jo, but we’ll see how it goes next week, right? <laugh>.

Jo:

We’ll see how it goes next week. All right, I can hold you to that. So we will have the links to Ernesto Social Media in the show notes here. His website will be in the show notes here. And then come over to the Future Proofing Health Professionals Facebook group, which Ernesto is a part of. So if you’ve got questions or you wanna affirm him and say Yeah, thank you so much for your inspiring podcast, you can come into that Facebook group and you can share the wisdom that you got from this podcast today. So our final question for this episode, are you ready? If you were going to walk into a cafe right now, what coffee would you order?

Ernesto:

Coffee. Oh my goodness. The first thing I ask, and you already know this, the first thing as I ask is, do you have peppermint mocha? So it’s not necessarily coffee. But peppermint mocha, I know Jo gets on this all the time because she took me to one of the most tasty place around her house. When was that? That was a few years ago, wasn’t it?

Jo:

It was a few years ago. That was before I got sick, I think.

Ernesto:

That’s right. That’s right. And so I had one of a cappuccino or something or some sort of a coffee that just wired me up. It was so good. It was hard to get back to the peppermint mocha, but I went back again. <Laugh>.

Jo:

It was a flat white, cause that’s an Australian icon. Didn’t realise how much of an icon it was, but yes. Thank you for saying that, that it was a flat white. That’s what you would order. I have a very, very long order list growing from all the people who have been on my podcast. Cause when we all get together and I can shout you all of coffee, I’ll know what I’m doing. <Laugh>,

Ernesto:

Awesome.

Jo:

So thank you so much, Ernesto. This has been a wonderful conversation. I am looking forward to making it go live. So until next episode, this is Jo and Ernesto. Go be your awesome self.